Thanks for the input 6th and OH, any suggestions on where to get that done in Austin?
Posted on 5/11 4:19 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by CHUCK8301: Oh and I love my blades! Titleist all the way imo.
This man writes the gospel truth. Titleist clubs are super primo. I have a mixed set of MB/CB and they are ultra sweet.
Posted on 5/11 4:32 PM | IP: Logged
Just bought some Mizuno MP63's. Best Irons I've owned since my MP14's back in high school. You can't beat Mizuno's forging.
Posted on 5/11 4:43 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by THE_Ohio_HORN:
Originally posted by Horns4Life: I've decided to invest in some new irons and am going to demo a few different clubs at the next taylor made, ping, titleist, and nike demo days. Does anyone have a set of irons they feel are much better than anything they've hit in the past? It seems impossible to figure this out by reading information because of the bias people have towards a particular brand. I'm about a 10 handicap and have been hitting titleist 731pm's, a combo set, and am still contemplating whether I should go with a cavity back or back, a combo set, or go with pure blades.
Just saw this thread boys. Sorry I'm late.
If you are a 10 handicap you are not good enough to play blades... sorry. Most scratch players aren't good enough to play blades, if it makes you feel any better.
Here is my thought process, no matter how good you are, why would you want to play something that will go further from the target and desired distance when struck poorly? It doesn't make any sense.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that just because something is a cavity back, does not mean that it is easier to hit and is more playable. The fact of the matter is that it depends, 100% no exceptions, on the mass dimensional characteristics of the golf club. To give you an example, The Titleist Z forged from a couple of years ago are more playable and better designed than the original Taylormade Burner Iron from 2 years ago. Most people look at those and say "oh the Taylormade would be much easier to hit" just because it has a deep cavity.
The problem is that they did not distribute the weight correctly and the Center of Gravity (CG) sits high on the face and towards the heel.
Another misconception is the fact that people think you can't "work" the ball with a forgiving club. This is so wrong it is laughable. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, things that effect ball flight are swing path and face angle. When struck solidly a deep, highly forgiving club such as the Callaway X-22 will move just as much right-to-left or left-to-right as the purest of blades. It's a misconception that has been out there for years.
The link below I have posted before, but it is the absolute best tool out there when searching for new irons. My suggestions for you would be Callaway Razr X Tour, Cobra S2 Forged, Titleist AP2 or Ping Anser (if you have money to burn) based on what you've been playing.
I stand by my thoughts that Chazutx posted above, although Taylormade has switched factories and their new TP line is high quality materials, but that stupid medallion in the back pushes the CG up too high. They are getting better though.
Always get fit most importantly.
If anyone has questions, just post them here.
I bought the Cleveland Ultralight Driver that you recommended. Love it. It has forced me to slow my swing down and am making better contact, getting more distance than I ever have. U the Man on Golf!
Posted on 5/11 5:09 PM | IP: Logged
Hey TOH, I follow all the equipment threads you post on with great interest. Ironic that you briefly mentioned the X22's in your post, because I've been wanting to pick your brain about that iron for awhile now. I've hit the same orange dot Ping Eye 2's I got when I was 12, and some 23 years later, as you can see, it's been tough to get rid of em. Having been around the game my entire life, but not getting to play anything that resembles frequently,especially for a guy who grew up on a golf course, the X22's were the first clubs I've hit that have pushed me to the brink of maybe buying my first set of clubs in two decades. Now that they're not in production and cheaper, I was wondering if you could give your more detailed opinion on that club. Also, if I buy a standard set off the shelf, should I still get "fitted", given the fact that the razr, x24's etc... are now their irons that are in production. MANY thanks in advance!
HOOK EM
Posted on 5/11 5:36 PM | IP: Logged
ttt
HOOK EM
Posted on 5/11 7:14 PM | IP: Logged
I play Mizuno 950 Irons and love them.I play to a 7 handicap down at Rockport CC. but forget that.Dillionaire23 said he has had 13 hole's in one.......... .BSBSBSBSBSBS
Posted on 5/11 7:42 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by E.TX HORN: Hey TOH, I follow all the equipment threads you post on with great interest. Ironic that you briefly mentioned the X22's in your post, because I've been wanting to pick your brain about that iron for awhile now. I've hit the same orange dot Ping Eye 2's I got when I was 12, and some 23 years later, as you can see, it's been tough to get rid of em. Having been around the game my entire life, but not getting to play anything that resembles frequently,especially for a guy who grew up on a golf course, the X22's were the first clubs I've hit that have pushed me to the brink of maybe buying my first set of clubs in two decades. Now that they're not in production and cheaper, I was wondering if you could give your more detailed opinion on that club. Also, if I buy a standard set off the shelf, should I still get "fitted", given the fact that the razr, x24's etc... are now their irons that are in production. MANY thanks in advance!
HOOK EM
ETX,
Callaway has basically set the standard in playability with their X series since they first came out. These are highly playable irons made with the best quality materials in the best factory in China.
They are well engineered and have a really pure feel. I played a set of X-18 Tours through High School and my Sophomore year in college. Great great Iron designs.
Now the PING Eye 2's were way before their time and still are very playable even today. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them and you would do well to keep them in play. However, if you want to truly take advantage of new technology, you can't get a better iron than any of the X series by Callaway. For the recreational player, they are hard to beat. The X-22's are great irons. I would recommend you give them a shot, especially at a discounted price.
To answer your second question, yes. You can buy a set off the rack and get them bent to your specific spec. In fact, most golf shops will do this for you if you buy an iron set from them and get a fitting.
Hope this was helpful and if yo have any more questions, let me know.
Posted on 5/11 8:23 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by husler:
Originally posted by THE_Ohio_HORN:
Originally posted by Horns4Life: I've decided to invest in some new irons and am going to demo a few different clubs at the next taylor made, ping, titleist, and nike demo days. Does anyone have a set of irons they feel are much better than anything they've hit in the past? It seems impossible to figure this out by reading information because of the bias people have towards a particular brand. I'm about a 10 handicap and have been hitting titleist 731pm's, a combo set, and am still contemplating whether I should go with a cavity back or back, a combo set, or go with pure blades.
Just saw this thread boys. Sorry I'm late.
If you are a 10 handicap you are not good enough to play blades... sorry. Most scratch players aren't good enough to play blades, if it makes you feel any better.
Here is my thought process, no matter how good you are, why would you want to play something that will go further from the target and desired distance when struck poorly? It doesn't make any sense.
HOWEVER, keep in mind that just because something is a cavity back, does not mean that it is easier to hit and is more playable. The fact of the matter is that it depends, 100% no exceptions, on the mass dimensional characteristics of the golf club. To give you an example, The Titleist Z forged from a couple of years ago are more playable and better designed than the original Taylormade Burner Iron from 2 years ago. Most people look at those and say "oh the Taylormade would be much easier to hit" just because it has a deep cavity.
The problem is that they did not distribute the weight correctly and the Center of Gravity (CG) sits high on the face and towards the heel.
Another misconception is the fact that people think you can't "work" the ball with a forgiving club. This is so wrong it is laughable. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, things that effect ball flight are swing path and face angle. When struck solidly a deep, highly forgiving club such as the Callaway X-22 will move just as much right-to-left or left-to-right as the purest of blades. It's a misconception that has been out there for years.
The link below I have posted before, but it is the absolute best tool out there when searching for new irons. My suggestions for you would be Callaway Razr X Tour, Cobra S2 Forged, Titleist AP2 or Ping Anser (if you have money to burn) based on what you've been playing.
I stand by my thoughts that Chazutx posted above, although Taylormade has switched factories and their new TP line is high quality materials, but that stupid medallion in the back pushes the CG up too high. They are getting better though.
Always get fit most importantly.
If anyone has questions, just post them here.
I bought the Cleveland Ultralight Driver that you recommended. Love it. It has forced me to slow my swing down and am making better contact, getting more distance than I ever have. U the Man on Golf!
Cleveland still makes a great product. Won the Central Ohio Amateur with an original Launcher back in the day. Their drivers have always been extremely underrated. Glad I could help!
Posted on 5/11 8:24 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Horns4Life: I've never seen this Maltby scoring system before. I'm assuming just because an iron is a "super game improvement iron" doesn't mean it's the best, right? The callaway x-24's have a very large score as do the k-15 ping irons.
It's mostly used within the industry. Ralph Maltby (the guy who invented it) is pretty much the genius of geniuses of golf club engineering. Him and Karsten Solheim were the pioneers of true golf club engineering.
Ralph designed for Wilson Staff back in the day and was Arnold Palmer's personal club grinder. He's forgotten more about golf than I will ever know and is a true gentleman.
You are correct in assuming it doesn't necessarily mean "best." But it does have a direct correlation with how well the iron is engineered. Many players have many different preferences, but an indisputable fact of golf club design is that is the CG is not in the center of the face, then performance will suffer.
The higher the rating, the closer to the line and correct distance the ball will travel on pure AND off-center hits. This cannot be debated. It has to do with how the weight is distributed within the club head and how that weight affects Vertical CG and rearward CG. The better the design, the higher the rating and the better the performance.
Posted on 5/11 8:33 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Godzillatron: Thanks for the input 6th and OH, any suggestions on where to get that done in Austin?
Golfsmith would probably be the cheapest and easiest way in my opinion.
Posted on 5/11 8:43 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by ChisholmTrail:
Originally posted by Godzillatron: Thanks for the input 6th and OH, any suggestions on where to get that done in Austin?
Golfsmith would probably be the cheapest and easiest way in my opinion.
Golfsmith since the Golf Galaxy closed
Posted on 5/11 8:45 PM | IP: Logged
I just got back from the ping demo day here in Dallas. It wasn't that surprising that the rep didn't have a left handed ping anser iron for me to try out, so that sucked, but he was very nice and recommended I try the i15. I wasn't outdoors (The net was roughly 12 to 15 yards away from me) and after watching me swing a bit he said the i15 in his opinion is perfect for me. According to the 3 people that saw me hit, I get very good ball flight and my swing speed is between a stiff and extra shift staff type speed. He recommended the i15 with a Z-Z65 shaft and recommended I have all the clubs made 1/2 strong (I'm guessing 2 degrees of loft). I really liked them, but decided to hit up the golfsmith in Austin in 2 weeks and try and demo them on a range to actually see my distance, etc...
I also hit the i15 driver and was money with it. I've been using a Callaway FT-i (the 08 model I believe) and the difference felt pretty significant... once again I think I'd like to see the entire ball flight, but it felt very nice.
Any opinion on the irons and driver ohio? I'm also wondering whether I should tough it out and wait for ping to release the new line... although I don't know if that'll be in July all the way to November.
This post was edited on 5/11 9:16 PM by Horns4Life
Posted on 5/11 9:13 PM | IP: Logged
Ohio, on the last thread you mentioned a set of irons being released after Memorial Day. Can't remember the brand name, but you said they tested off the charts?
Posted on 5/11 9:22 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Horns4Life: I just got back from the ping demo day here in Dallas. It wasn't that surprising that the rep didn't have a left handed ping anser iron for me to try out, so that sucked, but he was very nice and recommended I try the i15. I wasn't outdoors (The net was roughly 12 to 15 yards away from me) and after watching me swing a bit he said the i15 in his opinion is perfect for me. According to the 3 people that saw me hit, I get very good ball flight and my swing speed is between a stiff and extra shift staff type speed. He recommended the i15 with a Z-Z65 shaft and recommended I have all the clubs made 1/2 strong (I'm guessing 2 degrees of loft). I really liked them, but decided to hit up the golfsmith in Austin in 2 weeks and try and demo them on a range to actually see my distance, etc...
I also hit the i15 driver and was money with it. I've been using a Callaway FT-i (the 08 model I believe) and the difference felt pretty significant... once again I think I'd like to see the entire ball flight, but it felt very nice.
Any opinion on the irons and driver ohio? I'm also wondering whether I should tough it out and wait for ping to release the new line... although I don't know if that'll be in July all the way to November.
This post was edited on 5/11 9:16 PM by Horns4Life
1. The i15 will certainly be easier to hit than the Anser (and much easier on your wallet... the Answer irons run about $1400 for a set). They perform well and they are good enough for the best player in the world. They are what Westwood game. great clubs.
2. Tell that rep to shove that Ping Z-Z65 shaft up his ass. Seriously. Put a Dynamic Gold, Project X or KBS or KBS Tour shaft. Those Ping stock shafts are chep and HUGE margin for them. They will tell you that they are custom made for these shafts, yada yada. That's complete BS. If this was the case, they wouldn't offer custom shaft options.
3. Ping makes great drivers, but there are better options on the Market IMO. The R11, even with all the hype, is the best driver produced in the last 10 years with the Titleist 910 barely behind it. The i15 is deifnitely top 5 in the market though. make sure you get fitted for the correct shaft too. Technology in Driver shafts is at an all time high. Lots of exciting things going on right now in shafts.
PING usually keeps everything close to the vest on the new line, but I'll talk to the buyers tomorrow and see if they hear anything coming down the pipe from them. I'll let you know.
Posted on 5/11 9:35 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by horngrad03: Ohio, on the last thread you mentioned a set of irons being released after Memorial Day. Can't remember the brand name, but you said they tested off the charts?
Nickent 6DX actually being released May 20th I believe. Unreal. It will be the best hybrid iron set available when it hits.
Posted on 5/11 9:37 PM | IP: Logged
any thoughts on cobra irons? i've played with two different sets (can't remember which ones) and I absolutely loved them. Granted, I'm not very experienced and haven't played with many different sets. I was thinking about purchasing my first set and wanted to go with some kind of Cobra irons.
Posted on 5/11 9:38 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by onlyhug: any thoughts on cobra irons? i've played with two different sets (can't remember which ones) and I absolutely loved them. Granted, I'm not very experienced and haven't played with many different sets. I was thinking about purchasing my first set and wanted to go with some kind of Cobra irons.
Still making great clubs, even after the sale. The S2 Forged, S3 and S3 Max are all great clubs and are produced at one of the highest quality factories in China. I recommend the S3 Max if your not very experienced. Extremely easy to hit.
Posted on 5/11 9:44 PM | IP: Logged
I have played with titleist and mizuno irons ever since I can remember. Recently got fit at cool clubs in hank haneys lewisville location (strongly recommend this). I have one word for you. Miura.
Posted on 5/11 9:46 PM | IP: Logged
First off, thanks for all the help man. This thread has been more helpful than I thought it could have been.
I do get the ball up pretty easy, so is there a particular type of shaft you'd recommend? I've seen dynamic gold s300, s400, etc... and I've never even heard of a KBS shaft so if I do go with the clubs, it'd be awesome to get a top of the line shaft with them since it will be a while before I do this again.
The driver shaft he recommended was the axiv core red 69 shaft, which I wouldn't doubt will be the same story when it comes to being crappy compared to other stuff out there.
I googled a few things about new ping release dates and someone linked some patents (since they are public) that ping applied for over the last year involving driver and iron technology. I asked the rep about the possibility of new things coming out and while he said we are never certain, we go in 2 year cycles most of the time and the 2 years is coming up this fall.
Thanks again man!
Posted on 5/11 9:50 PM | IP: Logged
Wow, Ohio, what a great source you are. If I can throw you a question - I played X-18's for years, X-12's before that, loved them. 11 or so handicap, don't get to play as much as I'd like. About 6 months ago, demo'd and bought on a whim the Ping K - 15's. Have had a long stretch without playing, but just playing terrible with them - wondering if it's the club or user error, realizing it's certainly some user error. I wonder if I'd be happier with the Razr's, given that I've always like my callaways? Thinking of trading in the K15's... thanks for any opinion you care to give!
Posted on 5/11 10:05 PM | IP: Logged
TOH, I'm curious what you base your opinion of the R11 driver on. Specifically I'm curious if it is just your opinion that the r11 is the best driver made in 10 years or if you have stats to back that up like you do with the irons.
Almost everyone in the industry I've talked to, and my own experience, say the Titleist 910's and Callaway RazrHawk Tour are much better than the R11.
Posted on 5/11 10:47 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by r79337: I have played with titleist and mizuno irons ever since I can remember. Recently got fit at cool clubs in hank haneys lewisville location (strongly recommend this). I have one word for you. Miura.
No.
Posted on 5/12 5:56 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Horns4Life: First off, thanks for all the help man. This thread has been more helpful than I thought it could have been.
I do get the ball up pretty easy, so is there a particular type of shaft you'd recommend? I've seen dynamic gold s300, s400, etc... and I've never even heard of a KBS shaft so if I do go with the clubs, it'd be awesome to get a top of the line shaft with them since it will be a while before I do this again.
The driver shaft he recommended was the axiv core red 69 shaft, which I wouldn't doubt will be the same story when it comes to being crappy compared to other stuff out there.
I googled a few things about new ping release dates and someone linked some patents (since they are public) that ping applied for over the last year involving driver and iron technology. I asked the rep about the possibility of new things coming out and while he said we are never certain, we go in 2 year cycles most of the time and the 2 years is coming up this fall.
Thanks again man!
I'm a high spin, high ball hitter and I currently play X100 Dynamic Gold Irons. But, I am putting the brand New KBS Tour C-Taper in my irons as soon as I can get my hands on some.
KBS is designed by Kim Braley who is basically the Ralph Maltby or Karsten Solheim of golf shafts. He designed the original Rifle shaft and introduced the DG SuperLite back in the day. He has over 250 tour wins to his credit and invented shaft frequency matching. He is a sure fire genius.
KBS is starting to pick up steam on Tour with I believe about 20 players gaming them right now. You can fit one of his shafts to anything you want to do. If you are a high ball hitter, I would recommend the KBS Tour. It produces a slightly more penetrating ball flight than DG and feel great. Project X would be a great option as well.
As for driver shafts, if it's the AxivCore Red by UST, then that is a great shaft actually. I actually play an AxivCore Red 89 X in my current 3 wood. The thing about driver shafts is you basically get what you pay for. However, XCalibur makes phenomenal shafts at affordable prices.
The Xcalibur series is designed by Robin Arthur, a Yale Educated engineer who worked at True Temper for about 20 years and designed the original ProLite, ProLaunch and Bi-Matrix shafts. He knows what he is doing and Xcalibur is beginning to make its way out on tour. They are high high performing shafts with their most expensive option being about 60 bucks. But Anything by Mitsubishi, Matrix, UST or Aldila are all great options. The more you pay, the better the shaft generally with woods. That is just how it works.
And PING with 2 year product cycles sounds about right. I wouldn't be surprised to see another forging coming down the pipe, but I know they will be keeping the Anser in their offering. Something similar to the i15 will come out as that is their staple design, and a great one at that. I'll see what info I can get and pass it along.
Posted on 5/12 6:09 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by kebonics: TOH, I'm curious what you base your opinion of the R11 driver on. Specifically I'm curious if it is just your opinion that the r11 is the best driver made in 10 years or if you have stats to back that up like you do with the irons.
Almost everyone in the industry I've talked to, and my own experience, say the Titleist 910's and Callaway RazrHawk Tour are much better than the R11.
I base it on this. I played professionally and if you are willing to take the time to get on a launch monitor and adjust it to optimize everything, it is the best driver out there. It sounds better than the 910, which has a "ping" sound that I'm not a huge sound of. The R11 has a very solid, pop.
Callaway is in big trouble. Their "forged composite" (which makes me laugh because all it is is carbon fiber put in a mold and then stamped once so they can say forged) is not taking off like they hoped. I know they are having some cracking issues with the Razr Hawk. Phil is using a prototype version that has been modified specifically for him not available at retail and most of the staff pros I still have some relationships with are gaming the FT series, like Alvaro Quiros.
It says something that the R11 is being built 2:1 to any other driver on tour and guys who aren't paid to play it are gaming it (see Luke Donald and Jim Furyk). Taylormade woods are still the best in class, technology and quality wise. It's really not close. The R9 was not good. The R11 and Burner 2.0 are well engineered and very solid feeling.
If you do get an R11, the first thing you should do is move the heavy weight from the heel to the toe. This is the only area they screwed up on the R11. Because the sole plate is trending toward the heel, this is pulling the rearward CG toward the heel slightly. By putting the weight toward the toe, you move the CG into the direct center of the face and back slightly. But get on a launch monitor and tweak everything until you get optimum numbers. It is the only way to go.
my top 5 drivers offered right now are probably as follows:
TOH... Many thanks as always. Equipment guides produced by the big magazine publishers, NEVER tell you what you really want to know. Like the Wine Spectator of sports equipment. Your insight here is well-informed and much appreciated. Gracias!
HOOK EM
Posted on 5/12 7:12 AM | IP: Logged
Mizunos
Posted on 5/12 7:49 AM | IP: Logged
TOH,
I got my Anser's about 2 weeks ago and when I got fitted they recommended the Z-Z65's. I am now concerned I should be hitting a different shaft. I have a high swing speed and hit the ball high.
Would you recommend I get them switched out and if so what do you think that would cost? would be a little bitter to have to spend more to change shafts but I want to get this right on for me.
mammy
Posted on 5/12 9:29 AM | IP: Logged
Iron Sheik.
Posted on 5/12 9:31 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by mammy44: TOH,
I got my Anser's about 2 weeks ago and when I got fitted they recommended the Z-Z65's. I am now concerned I should be hitting a different shaft. I have a high swing speed and hit the ball high.
Would you recommend I get them switched out and if so what do you think that would cost? would be a little bitter to have to spend more to change shafts but I want to get this right on for me.
mammy
Notice how PING reps will almost always put you in a PING branded shaft? More margin = more money for the reps. They are not well engineered and just OK quality.
If you are hitting the ball high, then Project X for a slightly heavier shaft or KBS Tour 90 or Dynamic Golf SL for lighter options. I would suggest KBS Tour. Very penetrating ball flight. Well engineered.
The only drawback is that the Project X and KBS Tour will run you about $33.00 per shaft, but their performance is well worth the money, in my opinion. They are that much better.
Posted on 5/12 9:44 AM | IP: Logged
So after reading, you seem real high on the KBS Tour 90 or Project X. Since you recommended the KBS, would you rate them slightly higher than the project X?
Posted on 5/12 10:14 AM | IP: Logged
So what would you suggest or rather what would you look for in what's being referred to as "game improvement" irons (more forgiving)? I shoot in the 80s/low 90s and am playing a set of 10 year old Cleveland's that got handed down to me a while back when my father bought some new sticks. I don't play near as much as I'd like and really feel like my handicap would drastically improve with more play. I would like invest in some new irons in the near future.
Posted on 5/12 10:20 AM | IP: Logged
Damnit.
Any chance to get a credit for my shafts to offset the cost or am I just eating it? When I hit them before buying they had project X (rifle) in them and I hit them very well. You still recommend KBS above those or will both be similar?
Thanks again for all the info. Tough to find someone to help without some sort of agenda as I am finding out.
mammy
Posted on 5/12 10:28 AM | IP: Logged
Quick question on Taylor Made driver's. I've played an 08 burner for a couple years with pretty good results. I'm a around a 6 but would consider myself a little short for my handicap. I'm a low ball/slight draw player and avg around 260.
I've been looking at the R11 and the new Burner and would like your thoughts one what type of game each is better for.
Posted on 5/12 10:44 AM | IP: Logged
TOH -
I recently ordered a set of TM 2.0 irons after hitting them at a demo day. The TM rep said I needed irons that were 1-2 degrees upright because I was catching the ball towards the toe on the tape. I loved how I was hitting the ball with those and went ahead and ordered them 1.5 degrees upright a few weeks later.
However, while my clubs where on order I played a round with a buddy's set of Ping G5s. It was by far the best I've struck the ball in my life. I typically shoot in the (most of my 'bad' shots are off the tee...irons and wedges are my strength) mid to high 80s...I shot a 40 on the front that day and would have been lower had I not gone OBv on 2 tee shots.
Between that round, talking to a guy that makes clubs who said Pings are by far the highest quality, and comments by you and others on this thread...I am really 2nd guessing my decision. I've played 1 round and had 1 range session with the new TM and my slice has really shown up again, when I hit it true and can absolutely mash the ball with the TM 2.0 but my consistency is not there.
I'm wondering:
Should I try a game improvement Ping set...if so which one ? Does the a) longer club or b) 1.5 degrees upright have to do with my slice coming back ?
Any other thoughts are appreciated, thanks !
Posted on 5/12 11:10 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by mammy44: Damnit.
Any chance to get a credit for my shafts to offset the cost or am I just eating it? When I hit them before buying they had project X (rifle) in them and I hit them very well. You still recommend KBS above those or will both be similar?
Thanks again for all the info. Tough to find someone to help without some sort of agenda as I am finding out.
mammy
You might get in touch witht he rep and tell him you are not satisfied with the shafts currently in them, but you were when they had the project X. You might have to make up the difference but it will be better than eating $270.
This is to H4L as well:
I personally am a fan of both. Both have their advantages and both are extremely well designed. They produce much different results so it's about preference at that point. The KBS will produce a slightly more penetrating ball flight and have a distinct feel to them. Project X are very stable through the hitting area and still produce penetrating flight, just not as much as KBS. They are different so it's all about preference.
Posted on 5/12 11:10 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by jcordray: Quick question on Taylor Made driver's. I've played an 08 burner for a couple years with pretty good results. I'm a around a 6 but would consider myself a little short for my handicap. I'm a low ball/slight draw player and avg around 260.
I've been looking at the R11 and the new Burner and would like your thoughts one what type of game each is better for.
The Burner 08 was a great great design.
I'm more of a fan of the R11. It's stable through the hitting area and has a little more feedback than the Burner for me. But I'm a high speed, high spin player with a playing club head speed of around 121 mph. I just find the Burner too lite for my taste, but it is still excellent.
Posted on 5/12 11:13 AM | IP: Logged
I have the Adams Pro Idea irons and love them. Took some getting use to the 3 and 4 hybrid, but now I hit farther and better than I hit the old 3 I had.
Posted on 5/12 11:47 AM | IP: Logged
Taylor Made lifer.. Tried em all.
Posted on 5/12 11:54 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Hookem2102: TOH -
I recently ordered a set of TM 2.0 irons after hitting them at a demo day. The TM rep said I needed irons that were 1-2 degrees upright because I was catching the ball towards the toe on the tape. I loved how I was hitting the ball with those and went ahead and ordered them 1.5 degrees upright a few weeks later.
However, while my clubs where on order I played a round with a buddy's set of Ping G5s. It was by far the best I've struck the ball in my life. I typically shoot in the (most of my 'bad' shots are off the tee...irons and wedges are my strength) mid to high 80s...I shot a 40 on the front that day and would have been lower had I not gone OBv on 2 tee shots.
Between that round, talking to a guy that makes clubs who said Pings are by far the highest quality, and comments by you and others on this thread...I am really 2nd guessing my decision. I've played 1 round and had 1 range session with the new TM and my slice has really shown up again, when I hit it true and can absolutely mash the ball with the TM 2.0 but my consistency is not there.
I'm wondering:
Should I try a game improvement Ping set...if so which one ? Does the a) longer club or b) 1.5 degrees upright have to do with my slice coming back ?
Any other thoughts are appreciated, thanks !
The Burner 2.0 irons certainly aren't their worst option. From a playability standpoint, they are the best option they have.
With that being said, PING still outclasses them with iron design and performance. Since they changed factories, their quality (as far as materials go) is getting better.
The reason for your inconsistency is the fact that you are probably not a consistent ball striker. That's not a knock on you, it's just the truth. Therefore, the Burner 2.0's which are only rated as "Game Improvement" in MPF will be working against you and not for you. An iron like the G5 is much more forgiving and will worth FOR you on off center strikes. The nice wide sole, HUGE C-Dim (distance from center of the hosel to the CG) and the well done perimeter weighting all make it very easy to hit. The inverted Cone in the Burner Iron actually pulls the CG high on the face and their short hosel length shrinks the sweet spot.
So my advice to you would be to try out the G15, K15 or G10 irons, if you want to stick with PING. You could also go with Callaway X series or RAZR Irons, both of which are highly rated. Cobra S3 Max and S3 E9 are good choices as well.
I have attached a great resource when researching irons. It's the industry standard for ratings.
As for number 2, the short answer is no, sort of. The only thing that can cause a slice or hook (a ball that starts left and curves right or vice versa) is swing path and face angle. That is controlled by the USER. However, if your clubs are not bent upright enough your ball will start right of where you intend to no matter what you do.
A good club fitter can tell you exactly how many degrees you need your irons bent so go to a certified fitter and check your lie angle with the sole tape and lie board.
Much appreciated.
No doubt a lot is user error as I am not a consistent player and need instruction and lessons on how to become that. The problem now is I have seen myself play well, to the point that friends I have played with for 10+ years were laughing in dis-belief at how well I was playing.
I am now OBSESSED with obtaining those type of ball strikes on a regular basis...what an awesome but maddening game...
Thanks again.
This post was edited on 5/12 12:27 PM by Hookem2102
Posted on 5/12 12:19 PM | IP: Logged
Mammy -
Would you mind emailing me the info on where you got fitted for your PINGs.
Thanks.
dreproperties@gmail.com
Posted on 5/12 1:20 PM | IP: Logged
Reading all that it sounds more like an opinion than anything statistically like your iron playability numbers.
I couldn't care less what it sounds like if it long and in the fairway.
I've hit them all multiple times and talked to several people in the industry and the consensus has been the new Titleist drivers are better. I don't say that again to argue with you, at this point it think it is a matter of preference and opinion and we are both entitled to our own. I just don't think its as black and white as you make it sound in that taylor made's are way ahead of everyone else. They only thing they are way ahead of is marketing, they are the king of that and their driver sales reflect that.
Thanks for your contribution to the golf equipment threads on this board, they are invaluable and I really enjoy them and appreciate you taking the time to answer all the questions.
Posted on 5/12 2:12 PM | IP: Logged
I'm gonna make my way to golfsmith headquarters next week and see if I can test the same club with the project X and KBS tour shaft. I'm definitely excited about making the switch and think PING will be the brand I go with. I'm going to try out those callaway razr x tour irons you recommended and maybe the titlest AP2's, but I'm all but sold on the i15 unless the anser blows it out of the water. The price drop on the i15 driver and the fact that it's pretty long and workable are making it tough not to bite and grab it.
Any news on PINGS new stuff this fall?
Posted on 5/12 3:13 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by kebonics: Reading all that it sounds more like an opinion than anything statistically like your iron playability numbers.
I couldn't care less what it sounds like if it long and in the fairway.
I've hit them all multiple times and talked to several people in the industry and the consensus has been the new Titleist drivers are better. I don't say that again to argue with you, at this point it think it is a matter of preference and opinion and we are both entitled to our own. I just don't think its as black and white as you make it sound in that taylor made's are way ahead of everyone else. They only thing they are way ahead of is marketing, they are the king of that and their driver sales reflect that.
Thanks for your contribution to the golf equipment threads on this board, they are invaluable and I really enjoy them and appreciate you taking the time to answer all the questions.
The problem is that with drivers, there is nothing "statistically" that can be better than another. It all comes down to opinion.
Every driver made is maxed out in MOI and COR, so there is really nothing statistically that is going to make one model better than the other. They all have CG's very near the center of the face and they all sit low and back. If they weren't maxed out, they would have a severe competitive disadvantage and even the average player would be able to tell a very distinct difference.
There is not much more you can really do with Drivers to make them perform exceptionally better than the others. If there was, we'd still be a long way from white club heads.
Taylormade is the King of marketing, no doubt about it, but it's not like Titleist is this pure brand that has no marketing gimmicks either. One of their huge selling points is the ability to adjust loft and lie independently with woods. The problem is, especially on the driver, lie is irrelevant because you don't make ground contact and because it is a lighter club, deflection is reduced with the fairway woods, making it only "effective" lie that is changed, which is a way of saying it doesn't matter.
Irons are much more black and white. There is statistical data and measurements that can be taken to determine if an iron is more playable than another. All drivers are maxed out, so then it becomes a matter of preference.
I was speaking more to materials and engineering that goes into the head. Taylormade is the best at that and the statistical backing behind it is that Tour pros that aren't paid to use the R11 and Burner are still putting them in play. Some of Titleist staffers still haven't moved to the new 910D heads yet. Rickie Fowler just recently did as he had a 909 in his bag at The Masters.
I'm not saying Titleist doesn't make a great product. The 910 is exceptional. But they are still just a little behind Taylormade, in my opinion, because the numbers if measured would basically be identical, all other things being equal.
Posted on 5/12 3:20 PM | IP: Logged
as the saying goes opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. with that said this is my opinion.
i have tested basically every "players" iron and I can tell you that if you are a low handicapper and you have not tested Miura irons you are missing out. do some research, get fit and test them all side by side - it's well worth it.
Posted on 5/12 3:32 PM | IP: Logged
I'm glad to see that the discussion has remained informative on topic and not drifted to some juvenile tangent regarding men playing with their stiff shafts.
Posted on 5/12 4:46 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by r79337: as the saying goes opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. with that said this is my opinion.
i have tested basically every "players" iron and I can tell you that if you are a low handicapper and you have not tested Miura irons you are missing out. do some research, get fit and test them all side by side - it's well worth it.
If you want to play incredibly over priced irons with 1960's technology, then go for it.
But they aren't made with better materials than any other forged iron. They are all made with 8620 or 86040 carbon steel. There is nothing special about them except the price... and the fact that the CG is in the heel.
Apparently if I go with the i15 irons it is $10 more per club with the KBS tour shaft and $25 more per club with the project X shaft. The AP2 irons felt pretty good today. I wasn't in love with the TM 2.0's.
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